#14521: "Saboteur 2: When the blue team won, the green team did not get the gold (there were no blue doors). "
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| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Detailed description
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• Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
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• Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened
End of the game, distribution of gold. (Blue came to gold, but the green way is free to gold).
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
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• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
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• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
End of the game, distribution of gold. (Blue came to gold, but the green way is free to gold).
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
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• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
-
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
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• Which part of the rules was not followed by the BGA adaptation?
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
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• Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?
End of the game, distribution of gold. (Blue came to gold, but the green way is free to gold).
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
-
• What was the game action you wanted to do?
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
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• What did you try to do to trigger this game action?
End of the game, distribution of gold. (Blue came to gold, but the green way is free to gold).
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• What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
-
• At which step of the game did the problem occur? What was the current game instruction?
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
-
• What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
End of the game, distribution of gold. (Blue came to gold, but the green way is free to gold).
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
-
• Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
-
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
End of the game, distribution of gold. (Blue came to gold, but the green way is free to gold).
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
Quote from the rules: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
The green dwarves were free and undamaged.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v80
Report history
pino ice is building a new tunnel
pino ice finds gold!
Blue gold digger found gold: the blue team wins this round! - ERROR HERE (TWO TEAMS MUST WIN)
There are 1 winners in this round, including 0 boss and 0 dealer. 1 geologist also gets gold for the found gems.
mals77 plays for the green gold Digger and gets 0 gold nuggets
DungeonD plays as a Pest and gets 0 gold nuggets
__ Razz _ _ plays for Geologist and gets 5 gold nuggets
tynka plays for the Pest and gets 0 gold nuggets
LuisFGC plays for the green gold Digger and gets 0 gold nuggets
pino ice plays for the blue gold Digger and gets 5 gold nuggets
If a blue dwarf find the treasure, and there is not blue door beetween the entry and the treasure. Green dwarfs are winners too.
Chemin jusqu'à la pépite d'or direct sans porte (malgré la présence d'une porte bleue ailleurs)
Joueur avec nain vert n'a rien gagné
Partie #71337722
coup #33
i.imgur.com/OIamCh0.png
boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=71791457
coup #23 pas de porte, découverte par un vert, seuls les verts gagnent et pas le bleu
coup #92 pas de porte, découverte par un bleu, seuls les bleus gagnent et pas le vert
Incohérent avec la règle:
Ensuite, selon la continuité ou non du chemin entre le départ et le trésor, on détermine qui des Saboteurs
ou des Chercheurs a remporté la manche. Si le chemin est continu mais bloqué par une porte, seuls les
Chercheurs propriétaires de cette porte (en fonction de sa couleur) sont gagnants.
J'ai aussi eu une expérience, plusieurs fois.
It is necessary to supplement the description of the rules in other languages.
Всё верно. В правилах на английском и немецком, в разделе "New Dwarf Cards and Their Victory Conditions" описано что обе команды побеждают только если золото нашёл кто угодно кроме копателей. Команды соперничают и золото получает та, чей копатель построил путь к золоту (если не мешают двери противоположного цвета).
Необходимо дополнить описание правил на остальных языках.
blue reached gold, no door in path, only blue recieved gold
A team wins if:
● a dwarf from that team creates the connection to the treasure and the way there isn‘t blocked by a door of the other color, or;
● a dwarf from the other team creates the connection to the treasure, but the way there for his or her own team is blocked by a door of the wrong color
Both teams win (along with all other “non-Saboteurs”) if The Boss, The Geologist or The Profiteer creates the connection to the gold and the way there isn‘t blocked by a door of the other color.
Seems like a translation issue. Scoring works correctly per the English rules, at least.
The blue dwarf discovered the gold, with free way to the gold, therefore the green team doesn't score anything, because it is always the team that discovers the gold that wins.
The rule is poorly written (this is the case in particular of its translation into French), but I think that the implementation retained a correct interpretation of the rule.
Not a bug.
I know it may sound presumptuous, but I have spent many hours drafting my own version of the rules - taken of course with great care from the developer's. This is (1) because there did seem to be some uncertainties unless you read very closely, and (2) because I want eventually to play in 'real life' with people who aren't avid game players, and who get impatient if the rules aren't clear and easy to follow & check back on.
I have communicated also with BGA and with the publishers during my efforts at clearing it all up.
Am I able to post a pdf anywhere for people to comment, please?
Hi _:
Your interpretation of the rules is correct--if there is an unbroken path to the gold with no doors then all miners win.
Thanks for your support for our products; please let us know if you need any additional assistance.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Hope this closes the discussion and allows the game developer in this platform to correct it.
I can forward the mail if any proof is needed.
FR: www.gigamic.com/files/catalog/products/rules/rules-saboteur-2.pdf
C’est toujours l’équipe qui établit la connexion qui gagne. [...]
EN: www.amigo-spiele.de/spiel/saboteur-2 --> "Spielregeln und download"
A team wins the round if one of their own dwarves finishes a path to the treasure [...]
DE: www.amigo-spiele.de/spiel/saboteur-2 --> "Spielregeln und download"
Ein Team gewinnt, wenn ein Zwerg des eigenen Teams die Verbindung zum Schatz herstellt [...]
I must say though, I always learned it differently, as was confirmed by Amigo in Dissaster's post:
"if there is an unbroken path to the gold with no doors then all miners win."
This makes way more sense to me personally. The entire idea of the expansion is to create more dynamic tensions between players. Not just plainly saboteurs vs miners, but some competition within the teams as well. The fewer players winning the game, the more gold they get. This creates a great tension for all teams between working towards their goals (for which it's best to be with a large group) and getting rid of teammates (jail, forced roleswitch or placing a colored door) just before the game ends so your individual reward is bigger. The green and blue doors are a great example. If no doors are placed, all miners will work toward the gold. But as soon as a green door appears, the blue miners will try to stall the game until they have an alternative route to reach the gold. Confessing your colors too early may therefore hinder your ability to reach the gold altogether, as may actually be your plan while playing an unproductive role (sab/geologist/profitor), but can be counterproductive as a miner. As a miner, ideally you would wait until the very last card to place a (correctly) colored door to ensure victory for your smaller team.
With the rules as they are enforced here, it feels way more "random" as you need to be lucky enough to be on the right colored team to win as a miner. If no colored doors are placed at all, the gold should just be split among all (leaving very little left per player). Thus giving an incentive to actively "ditch" some teammates in order to earn more. Basically, the way the game is now played on BGA, the doors have very little effect and are pretty clearly not operating the way they were intended. It's a shame, because I really love the expansion, but now it feels a bit bleak.
I've played this game many dozens of times offline, and for our group the rules were clear: if there is no door blocking the way, then the winnings are shared. Since the winnings decrease with more winners, there is a motivation to play doors to prevent opponents from sharing your spoils.
So now I just spend a couple hours researching this issue, because it seems there is some variation to this rule in different editions/printings/languages. So, was it a rules interpretation error, or was the rule changed from one edition to another? I see no evidence of any rule changes, so I'm leaning more towards it was an interpretation error.
The rules listed here are clear: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the dwarves from the team of the same color win."
www.ultraboardgames.com/saboteur/saboteur2-game-rules.php
The English rules here also says the same: "If the path to the treasure is blocked by a door, only the miners that match the color of the door win."
www.amigo-spiele.de/spiel/saboteur-2#1441873892000-b4b4e996-942a
Frederic Moyersoen, the designer of the game states this on BoardGameGeek:
"In the case that you connect the gold via 2 valid paths with different doors, the effect of the doors is neglected. All miners (blue and green) share the gold."
boardgamegeek.com/thread/927474/article/17861920#17861920
I've seen the text of the alternative versions of the rules, and even spots where Frederic seems to contradict himself. Perhaps ultimately it's a house-ruling. But what should the rule be for BGA?
It's always worked well in my gaming group with the rule of miners sharing the gold unless blocked by a door. And, I do believe that it was clearly written that way in the first printing (which I own) and many following editions. How and why that changed, whether it was simply a translation error or misunderstanding is unknown.
My vote is for the original rule, as it makes the most sense to me. After all, finding the gold isn't like finding an item on the ground, it's finding an ore vein that needs to be mined over time... so a miner or team can't simply run off with it. If they don't have a locked door to keep the other miners away, then the other miners will be mining that vein with them....
See also
May 7th 2020 18:26 • GMaks
May 16th 2020 5:30 • Geddy19
The rules are clear that blue and green diggers are two teams in competition with each other to find gold and both teams win only when gold is found by a non-Gold-Digger (and there is at least one path without a door):
The New Dwarf Cards And Their Victory Conditions
Blue and Green Gold-Diggers (4 each)
Both teams try to tunnel their way towards the treasure, but they are in competition.
A team wins if:
● a dwarf from that team creates the connection to the treasure and the way there
isn‘t blocked by a door of the other color, or;
● a dwarf from the other team creates the connection to the treasure, but the way
there for his or her own team is blocked by a door of the wrong color
Both teams win (along with all other “non-Saboteurs”) if The Boss, The Geologist
or The Profiteer creates the connection to the gold and the way there isn‘t blocked
by a door of the other color.
le bug est apparu sur la partie 220896099 lors de la première manche.
Une seule fois dans la soirée qd les bleu ont gagné (sans porte bleu).
Bug sur les 3 manches ce jour.
Première et seconde manche un nain vert a trouvé le trésor, sans passer par une porte verte et pourtant seul l’équipe des nains verts ont été désignés vainqueurs.
La 3 ème manche c’est un nain bleu qui a trouvé le trésor et aucun partage avec les nains verts, pourtant pas de porte bleu
Bug lors de la première manche, un joueur bleu trouve le trésor.
Aucune porte bleu posé mais les joueurs verts ne gagnent pas, seul les bleu remportent la victoire.
Numéro de la table : 236991262
sreenshots imgur.com/a/mCYzgRh
vladispodik2 laid the crossroad and thus opened the way for the blue team before the last card played, but in the end of the game, blue team didn`t get gold
Blue dwarf arrived at gold, there wasn't doors in the path, and green dwarfs didn't get any gold.
Critically affecting game
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- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
