#49195: "Variant rules"
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• Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. -
• Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• Which part of the rules was not followed by the BGA adaptation?
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. -
• Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• What was the game action you wanted to do?
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. -
• What did you try to do to trigger this game action?
-
• What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• At which step of the game did the problem occur? What was the current game instruction?
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. -
• What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
History of Riichi mahjong is complex.
Unlike MCR, there has never been an organization with authority of unifying the rules.
Even in Japan several 'official' pro organizations exist and their rules vary with each other.
Also, this means they have no authority of enforcing their rules over mahjong parlors and amateur club.
Rules more familiar to casual players have many differences from pro rules.
Pro organizations usually operate competitive leagues and modify their own rules to suit the needs.
For example, pro rules do not have bankrupt rules because they use total points system.
Theoretically a player can win the entire league with only winning a single game by an obscene margin.
This hypothetical scenario means rank itself have lesser impact (not 0 because of oka/uma) on the overall performance.
Of course this specific case is improbable, though I hope you get my point :P
Besides, they tend to reduce the weight of luck by forbidding double/triple ron, red 5, abortive draws, and etc. for 'fairer games'.
Some of them even removes uradora or kandora, albeit this variant is minor.
However, that is not the case for jansous (mahjong parlors) and amateur organizations.
They have to attract customers and still run quick games.
Thus they adopted these luck-enhancing red 5 and abortive draws, agari yame and tenpai yame which speeds up the game end, and less-probable but still prizing elements such as double/triple ron, counted yakuman, and multiple yakuman.
Plus, the familiarity also affected the rules they adopt, like nagashi mangan.
(Blessing of Man is an edge case in this matter. Mangan, baiman, 4 fans, yakuman, out of use... :O)
Anyway, variants employed by many jansous and amateur organizations are oriented to platform which entitles the ranks based on a series of individual games, like BGA.
Most of players do not participate competitive tournaments, tens of thousand games run so 'less-probable' stuff eventually happens, and the familiarity.
This is the reason why almost all digital Riichi mahjong implementations use own rules similar to parlor rules, which contradicts rules from competitive organizations.
The default rule set of current implementation is from EMA and it seems quite solid, but adding more popular variant rules as options would make this implementation even better. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v93
Report history
1. Double or triple ron / Head bump
Head bump allows only 1 winner by player order whem 2 or more players call ron.
Almost all competitive organizations use head bump. I'm quite surprised EMA not using bump.
2. Counted yakuman
With counted yakuman, 13 fans or more counts as yakuman, not sanbaiman.
This actually happens more often than players expect, especially in beginner games.
Dreaded kongs and new doras...
3. Multiple yakuman
With multiple yakuman, multiple individual yakuman melds stack while scoring.
Although this is less probable than counted yakuman, this rule is familiar to casual players and it 'feels' reasonable enough to be employed.
That's why Saikyosen (a prestigious Japanese mahjong tournament which invites both pros and amateurs) adopts multiple yakuman even with its competitive nature.
4. Agari yame / Tenpai yame
With agari / tenpai yame, East of the last hand can stop the game if they win / are tenpai on the last hand.
As I mentioned above, this is more suited to casual games.
Also, this ameliorates early player advantage while playing with bankruptcy rule (eariler players get more chance of East wins which score x1.5).
5. Oka and uma + Tiebreaker by player order
Uma are even in EMA rules (as 'Winner Bonus'). Oka is an ante to be rewarded as an additional bonus for the winner.
Link: riichi.wiki/Oka_and_uma
With tiebreaker, tie is resolved by player order. The player who started the first round as North wins the tie, then West, South, and finally East. EMA rules do not resolve ties and split uma.
Same logic as agari yame / tenpai yame.
6. Sudden death
Current 'fixed but ties must be broken' rule is way too obscure and unrealistic.
With sudden death, if no one reaches default score plus 5000 points (which is the same as individual oka, so the goal is 30000 pts) after the last hand, the game continues to next wind until someone passes the border.
7. Nagashi mangan
More frequent in 3-player mahjong, but less significant in traditional 4-player mahjong.
Still mentioned this because I like the concept :P
By the way, how the game continues when abortive draw happens? Does East stay East or rotates?
Points 3 and 7 are exceedingly infrequent, irrespective of rules, and it's difficult to justify putting in the time. Points 5 and 6, or some aspects of what you suggest, don't fit into my understanding of BGA.
Details:
I implemented 1. Straight head bump (only ever single-Ron) or double-Ron possible but only first in turn order gets bets/bonus (Tenhou default I think?).
I implemented 2 (I agree that this is much more common than even single Yakuman hands if players don't control Dora tiles).
I am not implementing 3. To me it is irrelevant if players are familiar with the idea if it (practically) never happens. Also, this would be much more important in longer games or tournaments rather than in the typical BGA scenario. Same with the sky-rocketing variant.
I implemented 4 (both options).
Re 5. Oka/Uma are not meaningful here since there is no continuation or cash payout in BGA. So calculating a linear transform of the original scores is just adding more confusion for beginners (and the rules aren't exactly beginner-friendly) while not changing player order (which is the only thing that matters for ELO afaik). The reason they are in the EMA rules is because EMA organizes tournaments. For splitting ties: I personally don't like largely arbitrary tie-breakers and much prefer to keep the ties. There is also no meaningful way to do this for the single-hand game, leading to further options/rules divergence, which I want to avoid.
Re 6. I am not sure I understand your point. There is nothing obviously obscure or unrealistic about continuing to play until there is a single leader (which is the definition of sudden death). While I am familiar with the rule, I never implemented minimum target score as a win condition (like the start+5000 you mention), which I expect to be more obscure to players not intimately familiar with Japanese Mahjong. So to simplify, I put a simple sudden death to avoid having a tie for 1/2, irrespective of how the split comes about and irrespective of how many points the eventual winner has. That said, I have clarified the option text and actually fixed a bug related to this.
Re 7. As discussed before, I don't share your enthusiasm ;-)
Abortive draw: as I know the rules, an abortive draw is generally considered a replay, so no rotation. riichi.wiki/Tochuu_ryuukyoku
I am marking this as implemented. Of course you are free to reopen individual points.
In any case, since you have such a vast knowledge of the game, I'd very much appreciate it if you would help move this game toward Beta at this point. Like many Alpha-games without direct Dev-involvement, there is a danger of it getting stuck, simply because not enough players can see/play it (and the dreaded training mode is forced upon everybody). Thanks regardless for all the suggestions!
Add to this report
- Another table ID / move ID
- Did F5 solve the problem?
- Did the problem appear several times? Every time? Randomly?
- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
