#61525: "Ending game by swapping tiles does not award monument points"
What is this report about?
What happened? Please select from below
What happened? Please select from below
Please check if there is already a report on the same subject
If yes, please VOTE for this report. Reports with the most votes are given PRIORITY!
| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
Detailed description
-
• Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened
no
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
no
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• Which part of the rules was not followed by the BGA adaptation?
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?
no
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• What was the game action you wanted to do?
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• What did you try to do to trigger this game action?
no
-
• What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• At which step of the game did the problem occur? What was the current game instruction?
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
no
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
no
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
This happened in a previous game.
I believe this is how it is supposed to work: When ending the game by swapping tiles to empty the bag, you should still get points from any monuments that would trigger. Similarly if you end the game by taking the last treasure with your 1st action. The turn still plays out.
This is addressed in the Chris Lawson FAQ for Tigris & Euphrates, so hopefully it is official. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v99
Report history
The game ends when either of the following conditions are met:
‡ Only one or two treasures remain on the board at the
end of a player’s turn, or
‡ A player who is attempting to draw a tile is unable to
because the bag is empty.
At this point all players lower their screens. Each player
determines in which sphere they possess the fewest number
of victory points, with each player freely allocating his treasures
to any sphere(s) (see “Treasure Distribution” on page 12).
The player whose lowest sphere has the highest number of
victory points is the winner. In the case of a tie, the tied players
compare their second lowest spheres, and so on. If multiple
tied players are evenly matched in all four spheres, those players
share the victory.
That reads to me as the game ends immediately upon the failed draw, with no further scoring.
If there has been an official errata stating otherwise it could be changed.
Do you have a link to the Chris Lawson FAQ?
Seems there may be no consensus, but here is a thread on the topic. Chris Lawson actually spoke to Knizia about this.
boardgamegeek.com/thread/2697313/ending-game-tile-swap-and-one-implication
Apparently the original German rules only end the game after both actions and end of turn happens, but the English translation is worded as you posted above indicating the game should end immediately. I know the old BGG implementation of T&E would let the turn play out (both actions+monument points) even when you swapped tiles to end the game.
I hesitate to make a change that is contrary to the rules as written in the most recent rulebook, but also don't want to have the game work differently than experienced players expect...
I especially don't want to add a game option that changes scoring at the very end of the game and surprise anyone playing.
I will need to think on this more, and maybe once the game picks up some more steam on this platform make a players group and discuss weird corner cases such as this in said group.
I have been running the the E&T event at WBC for over a decade (boardgamers.org/eventhistory/e&t.html) and have always allowed the second action and monument points if the first action swap exhausted the tile bag, per the FAQ and designer's intent. Back when E&T was on bgg (and earlier on gametableonline), this is how it was implemented.
I expect that all of the top experienced players (online and over the board) would expect the game rules to match the FAQ.
For the Z-man rules reprint, I would think that was likely an oversight or typographical error instead of a deliberate rules change. The sentence to "A player who is attempting to draw a tile is unable to
because the bag is empty" could be clarified with some extra phrasing, but it becomes awkward english.
images.zmangames.com/filer_public/92/3f/923f8aba-72f1-4aa5-9622-d648ad1a9aa7/kn25_rulebook_web.pdf
I appreciate thenmal's sensitivity (“I hesitate to make a change that is contrary to the rules as written in the most recent rulebook, but also don't want to have the game work differently than experienced players expect...”) but it seems that the absence of this option is what puts the most questions about this implementation.
As the game is probably hard to find in many parts of the world, most new owners of the game learn the rules by acquiring a second-hand copy - and these vary from one version/edition/language to another.
Thenmal: "I especially don't want to add a game option that changes scoring at the very end of the game and surprise anyone playing."
I'm not a programmer, but in several BGA games, a small informative bubble appears when you point your cursor at various options. I imagine this could also be implemented here?...
Add to this report
- Another table ID / move ID
- Did F5 solve the problem?
- Did the problem appear several times? Every time? Randomly?
- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
