#62942: "90% win after picking wonders. An easy way to equalize the initial odds"
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Detailed description
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• Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. -
• Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• Which part of the rules was not followed by the BGA adaptation?
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. -
• Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• What was the game action you wanted to do?
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. -
• What did you try to do to trigger this game action?
-
• What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• At which step of the game did the problem occur? What was the current game instruction?
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. -
• What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
There are often situations in the game (i'm mostly speaking about vanilla version now) when the outcome of the game is predetermined after the choice of wonders. Replays and the starting move give a serious advantage. If the first player got 3 wonders with replays, and the second got only one (plus theology is not among the science tokens), then the first player will win with a probability of more than 90% (if he is not a newbie, of course).
There is a simple solution. Before the start, the second player should be given a choice in which of the two fours he will choose a wonder first, and in which – second. Then the situation described above will not happen and the starting chances will always be within 40–60%. • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v100
Report history
Dura 10min la partida... Si cree el 10% de probabilidad de victoria es poco, conceder la victoria al rival y empezar nuevamente otra partida.
Lo que si, sugieren al final, puede ser opción de configuración en la modalidad de juego, siempre con la aprobación necesaria de autor, editor, diseñador, desarrollador, etc.
The paper suggests that 7WD with its current rules has a win rate of around 67% for the first player. It also suggests that the go-again wonders are the most valuable (in-line with human experience).
I suggest that any alternate variations of wonder selection are made with balancing the overall game in mind, and offered as variations on setup to allow players to still play by the published rules if they wish, or these variants.
In summary these variants as described in the paper are:
<quote>
In these variants, the player making the first decision is not
necessarily the same as the player starting age I. Therefore,
we refer to the two players as Aristotle and Cleopatra. We
report the estimated win rate for Cleopatra.
• Variant 1 (60.0% win rate): After seeing the first 4
wonders, Aristotle decides whether to start the first draft;
the other player starts the second draft. Cleopatra starts
age I. This variant is known within the 7WD community.
• Variant 2 (54.6% win rate): In both the first and sec-
ond draft, after seeing the 4 wonders, Aristotle decides
whether to start the draft. Cleopatra starts age I. The win
rate is comparable to the expected score for white in
Chess, deemed acceptable for competitive play.
• Variant 3 (51.6% win rate): Aristotle sees all 8 available
wonders; he assigns 4 to the player starting age I and
the remaining 4 to the other player. Cleopatra then
decides whether to start age I. This can be considered
an “expert variant”, as optimal play requires an advanced
understanding of the strengths of the wonders.
</quote>
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- Did F5 solve the problem?
- Did the problem appear several times? Every time? Randomly?
- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
