#63092: "Discarding to Minerva doesn't draw additional cards when you above hand limit"
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| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Detailed description
-
• Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened
Move 35.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
Move 35.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Which part of the rules was not followed by the BGA adaptation?
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?
Move 35.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• What was the game action you wanted to do?
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• What did you try to do to trigger this game action?
Move 35.
-
• What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• At which step of the game did the problem occur? What was the current game instruction?
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
Move 35.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
Move 35.
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v98
Report history
Thanks for raising this. You've made me realise that there is a rules ambiguity here, that I've never even thought about while both playing the game or while implementing it on BGA.
I've always taken the rule to be, with Minerva, instead of drawing up to 5, you draw up to 5+N, where N is the number of cards discarded. So in this case, discarding one card from a hand of 7, you would draw up to 6, which means not drawing at all as you had 6 cards in hand still.
But looking into it now, I do see your point of view - the rules seem to say you draw "up to 5" (meaning again drawing nothing), and THEN draw extra cards. I've never appreciated that there was any difference but there clearly is in this case.
It wouldn't be any problem for me to fix the code to do what you are suggesting - but I'm really not sure what the correct procedure is. I've just looked through rules threads on BGG, specifically about how the Minerva discard works, but can't even find this question clearly stated, let alone answered by the designer!
So I'm going to have to research how this is supposed to work. In the meantime, and before I pose a question on BGG - if you already know of any definitive ruling on this, please let me know!
If not, I'll update this either way once I have an answer. Thanks again.
I tried even looking at French rules - I suppose they are original. The google translate of that sentence is "Draw until you have 5 cards in hand. If you have summoned Minerva (science/yellow), draw a card more per discarded card."
Which doesn't add much clarity (and I don't know how well google translate works for fine details)
I asked on BGG a few days ago. I haven't had an "official" reply yet (ie from designer or publisher), and doubt I now will - however everyone who replied has said they agree with your interpretation. Which on balance I think I do too, from rereading the rules when you brought up this issue. So I will mark this as "confirmed", and start fixing it. It shouldn't be too complex to do but I'll have to test quite a few scenarios with Minerva to make sure I haven't unexpectedly broken anything, so all I can promise is it should be done in the next few days. (It's possible I finish it tonight but I don't really expect that, I'd rather be slower and get it right than quick and cause an issue.)
I'll update when it's deployed, both on here and also in an announcement to the player group explaining my rules misunderstanding and how it works (properly) after the fix, in case any are confused by the change in behaviour.
Thanks again
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- Another table ID / move ID
- Did F5 solve the problem?
- Did the problem appear several times? Every time? Randomly?
- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
